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August 3, 2008 · 55 Comments

A while ago I posted about the fact that the dip in Mauna Loa CO2 data for March of 2008, as noted in a post by Anthony Watts, was really nothing out of the ordinary. The “event” was a drop in the seasonally adjusted CO2 level, a circumstance which is not very common but by no means extraordinary.


Watts didn’t just note the “event,” he believed he knew the probable cause:


In the graph above, the black line is the seasonally adjusted value while the red is the monthly mean. This is based on data through March. May is normally the peak month. Here we see how Mauna Loa CO2 has lagged in its annual rise. The likely culprit: Pacific ocean cooling due to La Nina and increased solubility of CO2 in water.

Of course Watts used it to suggest a number of ludicrous ideas, including:


Given that May is normally the peak month for CO2, and because we still see a strong La Nina, the result could be a lower CO2 max in 2008 than 2007 for Mauna Loa. This has happened before in the 60s and 70s in the last cool PDO phase (lasting til 1977). Even if it stays even with last year’s level, this tells us a lot and sheds doubt on these ideas:

1. Anthropogenic accumulation (civilization is still producing CO2)
2. A CO2 residence time of several hundred years seems unlikely now
3. Giegengack’s thesis that if man stopped emitting CO2, the earth would emit more to compensate, the premise being that since man has for the first time “upset the balance” and is pressing CO2 into the earth, then once the balance is restored the earth will resume emitting it instead.

This is really a typical Wattsism: take anything you can find, even if it’s based on so little data as to be utterly meaningless and isn’t really out of the ordinary anyway, and use it to suggest ludicrous ideas which of course fit Watts’ nutjob notions about how our atmosphere is changing. In this case, we should doubt that man-made CO2 is accumulating in the atmosphere and that extra CO2 will stay in the atmosphere for centuries. As for Giegengack … one nutjob at a time, please.

So I showed in the previous post that the drop in March of 2008 really wasn’t anything out of the ordinary. This spurred Lucia to go on and on about how there was a TWO-MONTH drop in the seasonally adjusted Mauna Loa CO2 data, so my rebuttal had to be utter nonsense and of course I’m an idiot because I didn’t address the issue of the TWO-MONTH drop. Watts didn’t even mention the TWO-MONTH drop in his post, although apparently the subject came up in comments, he just made outlandish nutjob suggestions like “sheds doubt on … Anthropogenic accumulation”. No, it doesn’t, and there’s really NO DOUBT that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are accumulating in the atmosphere. None. If you doubt that, you’re not a skeptic: you’re a nutjob.

Was this “event” the harbinger of a downturn in CO2 at Mauna Loa? Has a cooling Pacific sucked the CO2 out of the air? Here’s the seasonally adjusted data through June of this year, together with a linear regression line:

Well gosh.

It’s not just a royal swift-boating to focus on a completely irrelevant blip in an attempt to sew the seeds of doubt on things about which there really is no doubt. It’s also a pity, because there are interesting aspects of the Mauna Loa CO2 record which one would never notice without giving all the data its due and applying some actual analysis. For example: atmospheric CO2 hasn’t increased in a perfectly smooth way, not even if you remove the seasonal pattern to produce “seasonally adjusted” values. The increase is marked by random variations as well as anthropogenic increase. There’s been quite a bit of research into the causes of those variations, most of the plausible speculation having to do with changes in the biosphere and its uptake of CO2. If we look at the entire time span of Mauna Loa data, the raw data look like this:

and the seasonally adjusted values look like this:

It’s evident (and statistically significant) that the rate of increase of CO2 has itself increased; atmospheric CO2 is growing quite a bit faster now than it was when measurements at Mauna Loa began. Presently, the atmospheric CO2 concentration is about 386 ppmv, and it’s increasing at about 2 ppmv/yr. At that rate, we’ll hit 426 ppmv in 20 years.

That could be important. A reader recently posted a link to an article which claims that 426 ppmv is the maximum safe concentration of atmospheric CO2, but not because of climate change. It’s because, claims the article, when people are exposed to increased CO2 — not just for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but all the time, it causes reduced blood pH (blood acidosis), which brings a host of health risks including restlessness, hypertension, somnolence, confusion, a reduced desire to indulge in physical activity, and over the long term even embryonic or fetal abnormalities. The threat will be greatest for the elderly and those with existing respiratory conditions; the additional strain on health care and the discomfort and risk for the entire population will cause severe strain on society, including all of us living in the industrialized world.

I’m not qualified to evaluate the correctness of this paper but I have to admit that it’s scary. Yet I suspect that it exaggerates the risk of 426 ppmv CO2 levels. I really don’t know. And I certainly wouldn’t want to jump to any conclusions.

At the end of his post Watts stated,


It will be interesting to see in the coming months what happens globally, should we see a drop-off or leveling of global CO2 in response to our quiet sun and La Nina, it will be difficult for AGW proponents to explain.

Has he bothered to inform his readers subsequently that no, there was no levelling-off of global (or Mauna Loa) CO2, and that his suggestion that “this tells us a lot and sheds doubt on these ideas” is difficult to explain? It seems not. But he has continued to post nutjob ideas about CO2, including a hit-and-run implication that Mauna Loa data are unreliable because the measurements are taken near a volcano, for which he really didn’t bother to do any research on the issue. But fermiparadox has already posted about that. Twice.

UPDATE:

For a really good laugh read this, then read this and this.

Categories: Global Warming

55 responses so far ↓

  • TCO // August 3, 2008 at 5:26 pm | Reply

    I’m totally embarressed by my side which can’t make clear insights into variations versus trends. And then goes off on tendentious word parsing expiditions. They really need a slap. And to shut up.

    Could we please grow some better skeptics? JohnV? Zorita?

    [Response: My impression is that you're actually a skeptic, not a (insert favorite term here). You're one of the few.]

  • Joseph // August 3, 2008 at 6:02 pm | Reply

    Funny, I just posted an analysis of the 1998-2008 temperature “event” here. I would’ve suggested a similar method back then to determine if this CO2 “event” was significant. A lot of times a standard slope confidence interval won’t tell you these things. And that’s probably where Lucia is mistaken.

    I used a similar method to determine if the Mann & Jones (2003) “hockey stick” series really documents an “event” in the modern era here.

  • Hank Roberts // August 3, 2008 at 6:46 pm | Reply

    > my side

    TCO, oversimplification:

    – Just because you’re on their side
    – doesn’t mean they’re on your side.

    quoting Teresa Hayden (”Making Light”).

    Unless we’re being manipulated* by outsiders interested in taking over the real estate, Earth doesn’t have a “side” here.
    __________________________
    * http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/sheldon/sheldon1.html

  • Atmoz // August 3, 2008 at 7:05 pm | Reply

    It’s evident (and statistically significant) that the rate of increase of CO2 has itself increased; atmospheric CO2 is growing quite a bit faster now than it was when measurements at Mauna Loa began.

    This may be evident to those who are used to interpreting graphs. However, it may be useful to include a graph of d[CO2]/dt to show the rate of change of CO2 as a function of time.

    [Response: The latest trends are discussed here.]

  • bob c // August 3, 2008 at 9:53 pm | Reply

    as an agnostic on the climate change debate I find it curious that the pro side of the debate resorts to ad hominem slurs more often. As far as I can see Anthony Watt was just “noodling” the data, exploring what ifs! That makes him a nutcase? I read Realclimate and Openmind–and Wattsupwiththat and ClimateAudit–no one is totally convincing.

    Bob C

    [Response: Watts is not just exploring "what if"s. He's suggesting impossibilities like "anthropogenic CO2 isn't accumulating in the atmosphere." Then he uses them to imply that if his expectation comes to pass, "it will be difficult for AGW proponents to explain." You might as well say that if the moon is made of green cheese, it will be difficult for AGW proponents to explain.

    In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.
    -- Stephen Jay Gould

    Watts' "what if"s fit Gould's use of the word "perverse." He is a nutjob.

    And by the way, Bob, when you say "the pro side of the debate resorts to ad hominem slurs more often," you're a liar.]

  • David B. Benson // August 3, 2008 at 10:39 pm | Reply

    bob c // August 3, 2008 at 9:53 pm — You could read a history, “The Discovery of Global Warming” by Spencer Weart:

    http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html

    Review of above:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E7DF153DF936A35753C1A9659C8B63

    and some books by climatolgists:

    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/01/our-books/

  • Hank Roberts // August 3, 2008 at 10:58 pm | Reply

    Second the recommendation:
    http://fermiparadox.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/watts-wrong/
    http://fermiparadox.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/mauno-loa-is-a-volcano-so-what/

  • Lab Lemming // August 3, 2008 at 11:46 pm | Reply

    Tamino,
    Wouldn’t a March seasonally adjusted decrease be consistent with an earlier onset of the NH growing season, allowing the NH plants to start drawing down CO2 earlier?

    As for the 426ppm hypothesis, I think that urban CO2 levels have been higher than that for many decades, so if there’s an effect then we’ve probably suffered it by now.

    [Response: It seems to me that yes, it would be consistent with an earlier onset of the NH growing season. I suppose there are a number of other possibilities, but I don't know.]

  • georgedarroch // August 4, 2008 at 1:03 am | Reply

    And he’s also completely ignoring the global data, where the trend is more rampant than ever.

    [Response: Actually, Watts does note that the global average is different:

    The global data plot below doesn’t show the same trend as Mauna Loa, so it appears that this CO2 dropoff at Mauna Loa is a regional effect due to Hawaii’s proximity to cooler ocean temperatures.

    By "doesn't show the same trend" he probably means "doesn't show the same dip." Or maybe he does mean "trend," which would be rather embarrassing for him. It's worth noting that the global data plot is labeled by NOAA as "monthly mean carbon dioxide globally averaged over marine surface sites."]

  • Hank Roberts // August 4, 2008 at 2:23 am | Reply

    > so it appears

    O rly?

    Spatial and temporal resolution of carbon
    flux estimates for 1983–2002

    “… The extent to which the global observational network is able to resolve flux information at various spatial and temporal scales is the topic of this study. In particular, how well and where can longitudinal variations in carbon fluxes be constrained? Can continental fluxes be distinguished from fluxes from neighboring ocean regions? Does the observational network even constrain the global partition between land and ocean fluxes? Can trends and interannual variability in fluxes be extracted reliably from multi-decadal inversions?

    In the next section, we briefly describe the transport model and inversion technique
    used for this study. This is followed by a short discussion of the rationales for choices of
    prior flux estimates and uncertainties, model-data mismatch error, and observational networks used …”

    Biogeosciences Discuss., 4, 4697–4756, 2007
    http://www.biogeosciences-discuss.net/4/4697/2007/
    © Author(s) 2007
    http://www-personal.umich.edu/~amichala/Publications/BGD_2007.pdf

  • Hank Roberts // August 4, 2008 at 2:26 am | Reply

    and
    http://www.pnas.org/content/104/11/4249.abstract
    The changing carbon cycle at Mauna Loa Observatory

  • Tenney Naumer // August 4, 2008 at 2:43 am | Reply

    Might the value in March have been lower due to strong westerlies at the Equator and a jet stream moving further north (I don’t even know if it moved, but if it did move north, then couldn’t it have caused CO2 values to be lower in the short term?)?

  • chriscolose // August 4, 2008 at 4:01 am | Reply

    On to something which might actually be worth discussing, methane might be rising again (maybe due to Arctic permaforst melt?)…too short of a timescale to tell though, but if it continues, still more reason to be concerned.

  • Richard // August 4, 2008 at 7:17 am | Reply

    “That could be important. A reader recently posted a link to an article which claims that 426 ppmv is the maximum safe concentration of atmospheric CO2, but not because of climate change.”

    I know the following reference is short term exposure but we are talking about nearly 10 orders of magnitude higher concentration than the study you mention.

    Accession Number : AD0664899

    Title : CARBON DIOXIDE TOLERANCE STUDIES

    Corporate Author : SCHOOL OF AEROSPACE MEDICINE BROOKS AFB TX

    Personal Author(s) : Glatte, Jr., H. A. ; Motsay, G. J. ; Welch, B. E.

    Handle / proxy Url : http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/AD664899 Check NTIS Availability…

    Report Date : AUG 1967

    Pagination or Media Count : 27

    Abstract : Seven normal volunteers were exposed to an environment of 21 mm. Hg CO2 (3%) for a 5-day experimental period bracketed by two 5-day control periods. Measurements included daily serum and urine electrolytes, blood gas studies, and net acid excretion studies. Also included were detailed investigations of respiratory physiology, exercise response, and psychomotor performance. All subjects tolerated the experimental atmosphere with no undue problems. Arterial and alveolar PCO2’s increased 3 to 4 mm. Hg with a mild reduction in arterial pH from 7.40 to 7.37. Arterial pH values returned to near control values by the fourth day. No increases were noted in net acid excretion. Exercise was tolerated remarkably well.

    Descriptors : *CARBON DIOXIDE, *TOXIC TOLERANCES, CALCIUM, PERFORMANCE(HUMAN), ACID BASE EQUILIBRIUM, RESPIRATION, TOLERANCES(PHYSIOLOGY), BLOOD PRESSURE, EXERCISE(PHYSIOLOGY), ELECTROLYTES(PHYSIOLOGY), CLOSED ECOLOGICAL SYSTEMS, BLOOD CHEMISTRY, EXCRETION, PSYCHOMOTOR TESTS, URINE, PH FACTOR, GAS ANALYSIS, METABOLISM, RESPONSE(BIOLOGY)

    Subject Categories : STRESS PHYSIOLOGY
    TOXICOLOGY

    Distribution Statement : APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE

    And this

    Title:
    A Review of Human Health and Ecological Risks due to CO2 Exposure
    Authors:
    Hepple, R. P.; Benson, S. M.
    Affiliation:
    AA(E.O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Earth Science Division, 1 Cyclotron Road, MS 90-1116, Berkeley, CA 94720 United States ; rphepple@lbl.gov), AB(E.O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Earth Science Division, 1 Cyclotron Road, MS 90-1116, Berkeley, CA 94720 United States ; smbenson@lbl.gov)
    Publication:
    American Geophysical Union, Spring Meeting 2001, abstract #H31C-13
    Publication Date:
    05/2001
    Origin:
    AGU
    AGU Keywords:
    1099 General or miscellaneous, 1699 General or miscellaneous, 1803 Anthropogenic effects, 1899 General or miscellaneous, 6615 Legislation and regulation
    Abstract Copyright:
    (c) 2001: American Geophysical Union
    Bibliographic Code:
    2001AGUSM…H31C13H
    Abstract
    This paper presents an overview of the human health and ecological consequences of exposure to elevated levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the context of geologic carbon sequestration. The purpose of this effort is to provide a baseline of information to guide future efforts in risk assessment for CO2 sequestration. Scenarios for hazardous CO2 exposure include surface facility leaks, leaks from abandoned or aging wells, and leakage from geologic CO2 storage structures. Amounts of carbon in various reservoirs, systems, and applications were summarized, and the levels of CO2 encountered in nature and everyday life were compared along with physiologically relevant concentrations. Literature pertaining to CO2 occupational exposure limits, regulations, monitoring, and ecological consequences was reviewed. The OSHA, NIOSH, and ACGIH occupational exposure standards are 0.5% CO2 averaged over a 40 hour week, 3% average for a short-term (15 minute) exposure, and 4% as the maximum instantaneous limit considered immediately dangerous to life and health. All three conditions must be satisfied at all times. Any detrimental effects of low-level CO2 exposure are reversible, including the long-term metabolic compensation required by chronic exposure to 3% CO2. Breathing rate doubles at 3% CO2 and is four times the normal rate at 5% CO2. According to occupational exposure and controlled atmosphere research into CO2 toxicology, CO2 is hazardous via direct toxicity at levels above 5%, concentrations not encountered in nature outside of volcanic settings and water-logged soils. Small leaks do not present any danger to people unless the CO2 does not disperse quickly enough through atmospheric mixing but accumulates instead in depressions and confined spaces. These dangers are the result of CO2 being more dense than air. Carbon dioxide is regulated for diverse purposes but never as a toxic substance. Catastrophic incidents involving large amounts and/or rapid release of CO2 such as Lake Nyos in Cameroon, Mammoth Mountain in California, Dieng Volcanic Complex in Java, Indonesia, and industrial accidents with CO2 fire suppression systems teach that slow leakage rates and effective dilution must be proven to ensure human and environmental safety. Monitoring CO2 levels in occupational settings is done with reliable IR sensors. Remote sensing of low levels of CO2 over long distances cannot be done easily yet, although LIDAR, an airborne laser technique under development, may have good potential. The environmental impacts of elevated CO2 levels on vegetation are being investigated now in free-air CO2 enrichment studies. In general, persistent elevated CO2 levels cause a change in species composition, favoring C3 plants over C4 or CAM. The ecological effects of catastrophic releases are severe but depend upon (a) release rate and amount, (b) surface topography and rate of atmospheric mixing (c) exposure concentrations and duration, (d) the respiratory mechanism of the form of life under discussion, (e) its tolerance for oxygen deprivation, and (f) its ability to maintain homeostatic pH levels. Suppression of root respiration due to elevated soil-gas CO2 concentrations and acidifiction of the root zone are known mechanisms of tree-kill. Soil-gas CO2 in the tree-kill areas at Mammoth Mountain exceeded 20-30% at 15 cm depth. Surface masses of concentrated CO2 probably smother the canopy through oxygen deprivation, but the precise mechanism is not known. Lake Nyos and Mammoth Mountain reveal that catastrophic releases can result in complete dead zones.

  • J // August 4, 2008 at 12:41 pm | Reply

    The Robertson paper (Co2 vs blood pH)is scary, but it doesn’t appear to be cited much, either in the literature or on the web. I’m not familiar with the journal; it seems to have a low impact factor and a disturbingly generic scope. Also, some of the language in the paper sets off … not exactly alarm bells, but little warning notes in my mind. Call me skeptical about this paper.

    [Response: I had exactly the same feeling ... some of the writing caused "caution" lights to flash (caution as in skeptical of the paper).]

    That said, I’d really like to see something more definitive on the health effects of atmospheric CO2 in the 425-500 ppm range. I have always figured that the CO2 in my office was so high that the ambient global concentration couldn’t matter, but maybe that’s a bad assumption.

    (Also, note that Robertson claims 426 ppm would be reached by 2050, but as Tamino notes it’s actually more like 2025-ish).

  • george // August 4, 2008 at 1:02 pm | Reply

    It’s not just the speculation about the “meaning” of month-to-month changes in the CO2 levels that is nutty.

    It’s all the month-to-month (or even year to year, ) speculation about climate — including monthly/yearly changes in sea ice and surface air temps ( and even “updates” in the temperature trend since 2001: “IPCC still falsified”).

    The implication is that somehow we can infer changes in the climate by looking at what is happening from one month/year to the next.

    It’s like looking under the microscope at a single hair on a pitcher’s arm to infer how his team is performing in the world series.

    I wonder: Do the people playing this game realize how utterly ridiculous it makes them look?

    It seems not, or presumably, they would not keep doing it.

  • Richard // August 4, 2008 at 1:47 pm | Reply

    There are other studies that indicate the human body is able to withstand much greater levels of long term CO2 exposure than the study you cited.

  • B Buckner // August 4, 2008 at 1:47 pm | Reply

    Tamino

    Apparently the July Mauna Loa CO2 number was just released and the value took a large dip. Watts has it up on his site.

    [Response: Thanks for the notice, it's here. What a hoot! I laughed out loud at this one. I should stop being so mean to Anthony -- let's not underestimate the comedy value of his blog!

    The comment by george turned out to be prophetic.]

  • Dano // August 4, 2008 at 2:35 pm | Reply

    as an agnostic on the climate change debate I find it curious that the pro side of the debate resorts to ad hominem slurs more often.

    It appears the ad hominem recycling cycle is starting again.

    For those who use ad hom out of ignorance (as opposed to those who know what it means and maluse it anyway, like a cudgel), here is a little illustration for you:

    Ad hominem argument: “you are wrong because you are an idiot.”

    NOT an Ad hominem argument: “you are wrong because of X, Y, and Z (not to mention A, B, and C in Watts’ case). And by the way, you are an idiot.

    Note the difference. Those continuing to use it now that they understand it do it on purpose.

    ———-

    My suspicion (not having time to scrutinize the data) is that La Nina is the cause of the drop. I also suspect that the propagandists who feed Watts ideas suspect this too.

    Best,

    D

  • Hank Roberts // August 4, 2008 at 2:36 pm | Reply

    > other studies … long term CO2 exposure

    Citation please? Where did you hear or read this, what source do you rely on for the statement, where can these studies be read?

  • Hank Roberts // August 4, 2008 at 2:43 pm | Reply

    ps, I’m aware of
    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119985957/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
    and
    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1568219
    and cited papers, but none of those seem relevant.

    The paper I cited in the other thread that said their extensive search turned up nothing about measuring respiratory CO2 (capnography) as part of air pollution studies, because sensors have not been available to do that kind of work until very recently.

    If you mean to distinguish body from mind, I agree with you to that extent.

  • Curious // August 4, 2008 at 3:04 pm | Reply

    Here they come again:

    http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/mauna-loa-co2-january-to-july-trend-goes-negative-first-time-in-history/

    What an exciting life, being so sensitive to monthly data (while so unmoved by proved trends).

    [Response: You know what's also hilarious? While the January-to-July difference was negative, the trend is not -- but Watts says trend in the title of his post! The slope of a linear regression line is positive, not negative, but it's not statistically significant; after all, it's based on a paltry 7 data points. Insufficient data for a significant trend, and failure to apply any analysis at all, never stopped Anthony!]

  • Hank Roberts // August 4, 2008 at 3:12 pm | Reply

    > recently

    Hm. A fair amount of _very_ recent work is showing up related to this question). E.g.:

    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2176184

    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/sci;317/5840/953

    “… CO2 at concentrations around the average atmospheric level (0.038%). … We conclude that mice detect CO2 at near-atmospheric concentrations through the olfactory subsystem …”

    ——–
    http://www.pnas.org/content/105/23/8038.abstract
    “… We have demonstrated that adult C. elegans display an acute avoidance response upon exposure to CO2 that is characterized by the cessation of forward movement and the rapid initiation of backward movement.”
    ———-

    http://www.pnas.org/content/105/3/1067.abstract
    “… Central chemoreception, the mechanism for CO2 detection that provides an essential stimulatory input, is thought to involve neurons located near the medullary surface, whose nature is controversial. …”
    ————-
    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2176184

    “… Long-term exposure of rats to hypercapnia impairs AFR. We measured AFR in rats maintained in an atmosphere that consisted of 10% CO2, 21% O2, and balanced N2 for up to 7 days, as described in Methods. …”

    ————–

    I’d speculate from this brief glance through the journal hits with Scholar that
    – newly developed small inexpensive sensors for CO2 have just come into common use
    – lots of work is coming out in the journals
    — it’s now beginning to be measurable in individual respiration and in many locations
    – this will affect judicial and regulatory tolerance for the longterm industry and current administration claim that CO2 is not “air pollution” so cannot be regulated under the Clean Air law

    (The current administration’s entire Clean Air regulatory approach was thrown out by court decision in the last few weeks.)

  • Hank Roberts // August 4, 2008 at 3:20 pm | Reply

    Ding!

    http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/article_display.html?id=252294
    Capnography: The New Smoke in EMS
    —-excerpt—-
    Fire conferences fill their classroom sessions with important topics …. It is time for those of us assigned to the EMS side of the house to learn to read … the capnogram.

    Capnography is the visual representation of exhaled carbon dioxide, and although we have been considering carbon dioxide medically for years, the capnograph has amazing new possibilities for the care of our patients….
    ______end excerpt_______

    Yep, new sensors in use in emergency medical tech/fire response gear, ambulances.

    If the availability of easy measurement of local levels of CO2 is any threat to industry, expect a lot more PR coming out about levels of CO2.

  • Hank Roberts // August 4, 2008 at 3:23 pm | Reply

    One bit more from the fire engineering page, for the numbers quoted:

    ” … low capnograph numbers may indicate metabolic acidosis. We know, for instance, that normal human pH is between 7.35 and 7.45, with a lower number indicating acidosis and a high number alkalosis. We also know that normal carbon dioxide is between 35 and 46 and bicarbonate normally runs approximately 22 to 28. This system measures our two primary buffer systems. In diabetic ketoacidosis, one thing we expect is an elevated respiratory rate, but similarly we may see a decreased capnograph number.

    Dr. Baruch Krauss described an incident at Boston Children’s Hospital, where a diabetic patient had a capnograph number of six and was treated for DKA. While six seems nearly impossible, this patient’s pH number was 6.93; because of the early assessment using capnography, the patient was quickly admitted to their intensive care unit, where definitive care occurred…. capnography assessment has the ability to … help firefighters across the country in the everyday assessment of several conditions. “

  • dhogaza // August 4, 2008 at 4:40 pm | Reply

    Well, the comments at Watts’ site get loonier every time I take a look, which is not often.

    I’m starting to think he’s attracting a few folks having a good time, for instance the person posting that if the drop is caused by a cooling ocean then this might cause further cooling and further drops in CO2 and therefore we need to start pumping CO2 into the atmosphere to stop runaway cooling.

    I’d like to THINK this person is just having fun at Watts’ expense.

    I think I’ll stay away from his blog hoping to maintain my fantasy for as long as possible…

  • Duane Johnson // August 4, 2008 at 8:17 pm | Reply

    Tamino, could you please clarify your response to: Curious // August 4, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    What regression involving seven points are you referring to? The Watts posting refers to the history of changes between January and July of each year (differences, not trends, as you point out). One could talk about the trend in these differences with time, and even do a regression on them to see if there is a discernable trend, but certainly a lot more than seven points would be available, and I’m not sure it would be meaningful in any case. So I imagine that you were referring to something else entirely.

    [Response: The title of Watts' post is "Mauna Loa CO2 January to July trend goes negative first time in history." I took that to mean he was referring to the "trend" from January 2008 to July 2008, which is a misuse of the term "trend." Such a "trend" would be based on 7 data points, is not significant, and turns out to be positive rather than negative.

    If instead he's referring to the "trend" in January-July differences since Mauna Loa data begin, again there's no significant "trend." Maybe he's computing a "trend" based on only ONE data point? More likely he's just misusing the term "trend."]

  • Brian Klappstein // August 4, 2008 at 9:55 pm | Reply

    I don’t agree with the extrapolations of Watt’s but I do think the SST/CO2 growth link is real. A while back I posted here a comment that I had found a possibly significant correlation between the monthly SOI and year over year monthly CO2 growth rates, if the SOI is lagged by 10 months.

    I can’t find my spreadsheet, so I’m going from memory but the R2 was 0.64, in the period 1970 to 1985. Maybe someone can attempt to duplicate my results.

    Regards, BRK

  • Robert Wood // August 4, 2008 at 10:07 pm | Reply

    Shouldn’t that be a “Whatsit” rather than a “Wattsism”?

  • tamino // August 4, 2008 at 10:18 pm | Reply

    In a truly fascinating new development, Lucia has decided to criticize this post in rather bizarre fashion. So I posted this comment on her blog:


    You say “Tamino commented on Anthony Watt’s post discussing July CO2 measured at Mauna Loa. True to form, Tamino modified the subject and left off the specific point Anthony discussed. For interested readers, I’ve added the missing data point to the graph Tamino created to “rebutt” Anthony’s post observing that July’s seasonally adjusted measurement is down.”

    Note the date on my post: August 3, 2008.
    Note the date on Anthony Watts’ post: August 4, 2008.

    You owe me an apology, and you owe all your readers an admission that you’re wrong.

    We’ll see.

  • lucia // August 4, 2008 at 10:41 pm | Reply

    It looks like I do owe you an apology. I thought you were posting in response and you weren’t. You link back to the April post.

    There is something screwy with the time stamps though. According to Google, global network clearing house linked to Anthony’s post 22 hours ago, and you posted 13 hours ago.

    Anthony’s supposedly posted a few minutes after midnight, and your currently showing 10 pm. It’s 5 pm here in Chicago and Anthony is on westcoast time.

    [Response: You also owe it to your readers -- and to me -- to admit that you were wrong.]

  • lucia // August 4, 2008 at 11:09 pm | Reply

    Opps– sorry that sounds weird. Yes, it’s certain you posted first. Sorry about that. I posted an apology at the top of my post.

  • tamino // August 4, 2008 at 11:10 pm | Reply

    Lucia has updated her post to include an apology, and an explicit statement that it was in error.

    Case closed.

  • Joseph // August 4, 2008 at 11:28 pm | Reply

    Beyond the fact that the CO2 monthly drop may not be statistically significant (Lucia’s graph doesn’t look anything out of the ordinary either) there’s no reason to think the CO2 trend is linear.

    It’s probably too early to go check CDIAC emissions data, but that might tell us something eventually.

  • Joseph // August 4, 2008 at 11:43 pm | Reply

    Come to think of it, wouldn’t the price of gas alone be enough to explain these minor fluctuations?

    [Response: I couldn't rule it out, but I'm skeptical.]

  • lucia // August 5, 2008 at 2:08 am | Reply

    Joseph–
    The drop is not sufficiently large to overcome the upward trend. Moreover, if you read the NOAA page, they post calibrate. This is important with some instruments, and if an agency bothers to mention it, I always take it seriously. Some instruments go out of calibration.

    On top of all that, NOAA seems to be updating as we blog! June is down compared to this morning’s record. (Not a lot thouh.) July’s data is “up” compared to when I posted. Who knows where it will be tomorrow morning?

    Sorry again Tamino! Yes. I agree my readers did needed to be informed, so I let them know. My husband was just arriving home as the various emails came in, then tornados started sweeping through making internet covering spotty. Otherwise my comments would have been a bit clearer.

    I also doubt this is due to the price of gas. I suspect some sort of calibration drift during this particular instrumentation period.

  • Hank Roberts // August 5, 2008 at 2:43 am | Reply

    http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/104/47/18866

    Since 2000, the contributions of these three factors to the increase in the atmospheric CO2 growth rate have been ≈65 ± 16% from increasing global economic activity, 17 ± 6% from the increasing carbon intensity of the global economy, and 18 ± 15% from the increase in AF [airborne fraction].

  • EliRabett // August 5, 2008 at 3:01 am | Reply

    FWIW some randomness. I believe that the original IR monitor that Keeling used was developed to track CO2 in breath.

    Also, if you want to look for seasonal differences use the Barrow station data (or others at high northern latitudes) which have much larger seasonal variation

  • thingsbreak // August 5, 2008 at 3:35 am | Reply

    lucia ,

    June is down compared to this morning’s record. (Not a lot thouh.) July’s data is “up” compared to when I posted. Who knows where it will be tomorrow morning?

    Is this a joke?

    [Response: It's not a joke. I downloaded the data this morning, and again tonight after hearing of the revision. The previously stated value for July 2008 was 384.93, the current stated value is 385.60; for the seasonally adjusted values, the morning report was 384.54, tonight's report is 385.25.

    ESRL (Earth System Research Laboratory) states explicitly that "The last year of data are still preliminary, pending recalibrations of reference gases and other quality control checks." Even so, there are changes prior to a year ago, as far back as June 1974. Most of the changes are small, but the change for July 2008 is much larger. I wish I knew more about why.]

  • Arch Stanton // August 5, 2008 at 4:12 am | Reply

    Joseph, I doubt it is US gas consumption. Worldwide the oil is still being pumped at the same rate…It’s not going into the US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (although I do believe China is still filling theirs, but that is not new). I suspect it is still being used at about the same rate. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ipsr/t11d.xls

  • george // August 5, 2008 at 4:38 am | Reply

    ESRL (Earth System Research Laboratory) states explicitly that “The last year of data are still preliminary, pending recalibrations of reference gases and other quality control checks.”

    That alone should be sufficient reason to avoid speculation about the “meaning” of recent “fluctuations” in atmospheric CO2.

    Should be…

    But hey, what fun it is to speculate based on preliminary or otherwise insufficient data — especially that brand new monthly data hot off the instruments!

    Actually having lots of data (more than 7 years, for example) to analyze is such a bore. Everyone has already looked at that “old” stuffy data and having so much of it is so constricting. Leaves no room for wild theories and outlandish claims…

  • Hank Roberts // August 5, 2008 at 4:50 am | Reply

    Thanks Eli– fascinating. I saw mention that CO2 monitors have been too big and heavy to use except in hospital type environments, til just recently.

    I wonder what’ll happen when we have CAT scanners and MRIs that fit in a pocket.

    Microscopes just shrank to that size last week.

    Dizzying.

  • Philippe Chantreau // August 5, 2008 at 5:15 am | Reply

    About that Robertson paper, I, too am skeptical. A sizable portion of the population with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease lives with high levels of CO2 and baseline acidosis, to which their bodies adjust. Of course, that would get in the way of racing an Ironman triathlon but these people are otherwise functional.

  • Hank Roberts // August 5, 2008 at 7:45 am | Reply

    From the same PNAS article linked and quoted above:

    Atmospheric CO2 Concentration.

    We use monthly and annual-mean atmospheric CO2 concentration analyzed and compiled by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Earth System Research Laboratory in Colorado (www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends) and published by the Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) along other historical data based on ice core analyses (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/contents.htm). From 1959 to 1980, data came from the Mauna Loa observatory (Hawaii, U.S.) and since 1980 represent a globally averaged CO2 concentration using weighted observations from many laboratories.

  • tamino // August 5, 2008 at 1:39 pm | Reply

    I’ve sent an inquiry to ESRL asking about the reasons for yesterday’s revision of Mauna Loa CO2 data. I’ll post whatever I find out.

  • tamino // August 5, 2008 at 2:49 pm | Reply

    I received a reply (very soon!) to my inquiry to ESRL. It is:

    The reason was simply that we had a problem with the equipment for the first half of July, with the result that the earlier monthly average consisted of only the last 10 days. Since CO2 always goes down fast during July the monthly average came out low. I have now changed the program to take this effect into account, and adjusting back to the middle of the month using the multi-year average seasonal cycle. This change also affected the entire record because there are missing days here and there. The other adjustments were minor, typically less than 0.1 ppm.

    Pieter Tans

    Using the seasonal pattern to compensate for the bias introduced by missing data is a better procedure than not doing so; if you leave out the “high” part of the month then your average will be biased low, and vice versa. It also explains why previous values were also updated, and indicates that the revision is indeed an improvement.

  • Hank Roberts // August 5, 2008 at 2:54 pm | Reply

    One plea, Tamino — you link to your copies of the graphs, other bloggers link to their copies. If bloggers would always, also, post the actual link to the actual source, next to their copy of how it looked at the time, it would be a great help later on.

    Particularly when it takes months sometimes to get the numbers right, the pictures may change too.

  • Hank Roberts // August 5, 2008 at 3:23 pm | Reply

    (PS, W*tts put up a blink comparator for images of the chart around this change; the W*tts thread’s participants are by now deep into conspiracy theories, nay, conspiracy certainties, about the revisions, with name-calling as usual, sigh.)

    http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

  • Joseph // August 5, 2008 at 3:29 pm | Reply

    The drop is not sufficiently large to overcome the upward trend.

    Sure, but who says we’re on a downward CO2 trend at this point?

  • lucia // August 5, 2008 at 5:53 pm | Reply

    Joseph–
    Now that NOAA has fixed the data problem, do you still think yesterday’s dramatic deviation from the existing upward trend did not look unusual?

    I would suggest it looked sufficiently unusual to motivate Dr. Tans investigate. He has now implemented a fix to prevent these sorts of odd excursions resulting from instrument outages.

    It’s fine to suggest that people should be cautious in speculating about meaning when a fresh data point is published. But refusing to even notice something is an outlier makes it difficult to detect data quality issues or spot other difficulties. Had Dr. Tans refused to see anything unusual in the July measurement, it would still be reading low!

    Given how many people examine this data, it might be wise for Dr. Tans to add fiduciary information to the files– possibly number of days of valid measurement. But, government agencies being what they are, it wouldn’t surprise me if that would require a committee decision.

  • Aaron Lewis // August 5, 2008 at 6:15 pm | Reply

    Come on guys! A cornerstone of AGW theory is that human energy consumption affects the composition of the atmosphere. This summer we have had a global economic slowdown reducing overall energy consumption. We have had high oil prices reducing oil consumption. China has instituted “blue sky” policies to prepare for the Olympics, shutting down major industry upwind of Mona Loa. I would be very surprised if the CO2 levels recorded at Mona Loa did not come down a few points this summer.

    If they did not I would have to reconsider the concept that human energy consumption affects the composition of the atmosphere.

  • dhogaza // August 5, 2008 at 6:46 pm | Reply

    Now that NOAA has fixed the data problem, do you still think yesterday’s dramatic deviation from the existing upward trend did not look unusual?

    I would suggest it looked sufficiently unusual to motivate Dr. Tans investigate. He has now implemented a fix to prevent these sorts of odd excursions resulting from instrument outages.

    Well, let’s think for a moment about how this news was greeted. By the objective, non-biased, science-truther Watts:

    this tells us a lot and sheds doubt on these ideas:

    1. Anthropogenic accumulation (civilization is still producing CO2)
    2. A CO2 residence time of several hundred years seems unlikely now
    3. Giegengack’s thesis that if man stopped emitting CO2, the earth would emit more to compensate, the premise being that since man has for the first time “upset the balance” and is pressing CO2 into the earth, then once the balance is restored the earth will resume emitting it instead.

    vs. the reality-based Dr. Tans:

    Oh, shit, looks like we have an instrumentation problem, Houston!

    OK, that’s a paraphrase, but seems close enough to reality for a blog post.

    Now, do you folks really wonder why some of us listen to scientists when we want to learn about science, and science denialists when we want to be entertained?

    [Response: The Watts quote is from an earlier post about the drop in CO2 for March 2008, not the post about July 2008. But his suggestions were just as ludicrous then as they would be now.]

  • Adam // August 5, 2008 at 8:05 pm | Reply

    I would have thought that Dr Tans would have known about the instrument error when it originally occurred. So he would have known in advance that the month’s data point would probably be in error. My *speculation* is that it probably wasn’t investigating the data point that initiated the fix, and it may well have been in the pipeline for some days, but wasn’t implemented until the July data was complete.

  • tamino // August 5, 2008 at 8:32 pm | Reply

    I’m preparing a post further to explain the revision to Mauna Loa CO2 data.

  • george // August 14, 2008 at 5:13 am | Reply

    lucia says above

    It’s fine to suggest that people should be cautious in speculating about meaning when a fresh data point is published. But refusing to even notice something is an outlier makes it difficult to detect data quality issues or spot other difficulties. Had Dr. Tans refused to see anything unusual in the July measurement, it would still be reading low!

    There are two possible meanings of “meaning” when it comes to new data points.

    The first: “what does the data point mean in terms of instrument performance?”

    If the data point “means” that the instruments are likely broken, of course it makes no sense to even ask about the second sense of the word meaning: does it tell us something significant about the physical world? (about temperature for example)

    Few would advocate “refusing to even notice something is an outlier” — ie, refusing to question whether a data point has meaning. All good scientists do that.

    But good scientists do not speculate about the second kind of meaning until they have satisfied themselves that the data point indeed has “meaning” (other than that “my instrument is broken”, that is)

    Some bloggers, on the other hand, seem to love to speculate about the “meaning” (in the second sense) of each new monthly data point when it comes to records, trends, etc.

    Such speculation is meaningless.

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